This is because I can't imagine my EFL learners being able to do the same thing. And yet, the possibility of "discovering" most of these things on your own is vanishingly small. Only by virtue of already having the language skills that they would be struggling to acquire can I learn to play the game. I've wondered about putting myself into the position of learning to play in and through a language in which I only have marginal competence (for example, Dutch which I can sort of sort of begin to deal with at a beginner level because of my German skills).
Maybe to have a true, more immersive learning experience I need to stop "cheating" as of right now (before I've learned anything else) and force myself only to rely on the good-will of strangers inworld.
BTW, I enjoyed meeting Jane and Mattie inworld today. Mattie has impressive skills. But then he's been playing MC for 6 years! I don't expect to be committing that many years to the game. :)
BTW2, I some ways I was still cheating inworld because I could use advanced English skills to ask questions and understand the responses. My students would not be capable of this.
Don Carroll What about when two language students pair up to learn together... (which can be either a very good thing, or a very bad thing for the aural part I would imagine). Wouldn't that be analogous to meeting up with someone in-world for a little "play"?
If you wanted to "model" the learning at that deep a level, you wouldn't have to use spoken English, you could limit yourself to the "resources available within the game". (if that would make you happier) It is all about what you want/are trying to do. I think for many of us, the idea is to take the enthusiasm, and the problem solving, and the community that develops in-world, and translate/transfer that out-of-world into the discipline that we are (trying) to teach. That is "language" for many, but my real world avatar supported instructors (and students) of all disciplines, so I try to view Minecraft as as-many-a-bladed Swiss Army Knife as I can. I "try" not to oversell, but that is not always easy when you are as passionate about the concepts and ideas as I am. Minecraft might not be the exact right fit for you, but think of it as trying on the "concept" more than kicking the tires on the particular "game". Just steal the parts that work for you. Identifying the parts that don't fit is a win, just as much as finding the parts that do. But I think the key, overall... if you are not having "fun"... you are not likely to find much success with any of it. (Grossly simplifying, from my perspective at least, YMMV)
Dak ;)
Sorry, if this comes off as "preachy". It is not meant to be. I REALLY enjoy everything that you written, (full disclosure - I hear a LOT of my own inner voice in your writing - so I figure if I like this "game" then once you have come to know it, then you will "HAVE" to ;) ) . My main driving force is that I want to build a world here where everyone will have "fun" ( ok, and maybe learn something ), and sometimes it seems like you aren't having "fun" and I would hate to lose you. :) ( ok, and selfish reasons... I can "predict" the posts I would not get to enjoy)
At this point it's mostly sheer, grim, perverse, determination that's driving me forward. Maybe that's my idea of fun. : )
And I understand the almost "evangelical enthusiasm" of people here (and CALL/WALL/ITC more generally). Though to outsiders this can sometimes come off as "having drunk the Koolaid." People in my own field of Conversation Analysis (and we usually write it with capital letters) are often accused of the same thing.
I'm enjoying dipping my toes in the EVO waters and enjoyed the live introductory presentation on all there other sessions being offered. I hadn't realized how broad a spectrum there was. When I was working at Sultan Qaboos University in Oman with Vance (almost 25 years ago!) there was a number of us language instructors interested in CALL and the university was chock-full of state-of-the-art computer labs. (And there were many other teachers with no interest whatsoever.) Vance was the driving force on the PC side and another colleague Tom Cobb was managing the Mac side of things. Initially both Vance and Tom were doing a lot with concordancing. It seems that Vance has moved away from that while Tom pursued that into a Ph.D. and a professorship at the University of Quebec at Montreal and has become one of the leaders in the field of lexical learning. (See Tom's website at https://www.lextutor.ca/), I was just getting into the idea of CALL when I left Oman to take a job in Mexico. And the tech disappeared almost completely. Anyway, that was still in a pre-web era of emal LISTSERVS. When I accepted my current position in Japan, I imagined that I would probably continue on with an exploration of CALL/WALL. I was shocked to discover when I arrived here in 1996 that no more than 2 students out of a class of 30 actually had a computer at home...and that that computer was not internet capable. I made a few feeble attempts to lead my students into chat rooms, which were a complete and utter failure since the students just sat there in front of the screen with their hands in their laps. Literally. Even today, not all of my students have a computer. For my adult learners, it may be that Tom's lexical activities (or rather the training of teachers to take advantage of it) is more on point, than gamification. But there's hope for me yet as a MC Missionary. Yesterday I was talking to a past student who who now teaches English in junior high. I showed her the Smolčec and Smolčec (2014) article with the intro by Vance and she seemed interested. lextutor.ca - Compleat Lexical Tutor
Don, I enjoy meeting you, too! Unlike the real world where mommy says no to this and no to that, Minecraft is the only place where Mattie gets to build, create, try out crazy ideas, and do whatever he wants. Mattie hung out with Rose, Dak, and Maha a lot last year. He was eager to communicate even with his very little competence in the L2. Both Mattie and I learned a lot by joining this community. And I can see I am going to learn more about ethnomethodological conversational analysis this year! Glad that you've joined us. :)
This is because I can't imagine my EFL learners being able to do the same thing. And yet, the possibility of "discovering" most of these things on your own is vanishingly small. Only by virtue of already having the language skills that they would be struggling to acquire can I learn to play the game. I've wondered about putting myself into the position of learning to play in and through a language in which I only have marginal competence (for example, Dutch which I can sort of sort of begin to deal with at a beginner level because of my German skills).
ReplyDeleteMaybe to have a true, more immersive learning experience I need to stop "cheating" as of right now (before I've learned anything else) and force myself only to rely on the good-will of strangers inworld.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I enjoyed meeting Jane and Mattie inworld today. Mattie has impressive skills. But then he's been playing MC for 6 years! I don't expect to be committing that many years to the game. :)
ReplyDeleteBTW2, I some ways I was still cheating inworld because I could use advanced English skills to ask questions and understand the responses. My students would not be capable of this.
ReplyDeleteDon Carroll What about when two language students pair up to learn together... (which can be either a very good thing, or a very bad thing for the aural part I would imagine). Wouldn't that be analogous to meeting up with someone in-world for a little "play"?
ReplyDeleteIf you wanted to "model" the learning at that deep a level, you wouldn't have to use spoken English, you could limit yourself to the "resources available within the game". (if that would make you happier) It is all about what you want/are trying to do. I think for many of us, the idea is to take the enthusiasm, and the problem solving, and the community that develops in-world, and translate/transfer that out-of-world into the discipline that we are (trying) to teach. That is "language" for many, but my real world avatar supported instructors (and students) of all disciplines, so I try to view Minecraft as as-many-a-bladed Swiss Army Knife as I can. I "try" not to oversell, but that is not always easy when you are as passionate about the concepts and ideas as I am. Minecraft might not be the exact right fit for you, but think of it as trying on the "concept" more than kicking the tires on the particular "game". Just steal the parts that work for you. Identifying the parts that don't fit is a win, just as much as finding the parts that do. But I think the key, overall... if you are not having "fun"... you are not likely to find much success with any of it. (Grossly simplifying, from my perspective at least, YMMV)
Dak ;)
Sorry, if this comes off as "preachy". It is not meant to be. I REALLY enjoy everything that you written, (full disclosure - I hear a LOT of my own inner voice in your writing - so I figure if I like this "game" then once you have come to know it, then you will "HAVE" to ;) ) . My main driving force is that I want to build a world here where everyone will have "fun" ( ok, and maybe learn something ), and sometimes it seems like you aren't having "fun" and I would hate to lose you. :)
( ok, and selfish reasons... I can "predict" the posts I would not get to enjoy)
At this point it's mostly sheer, grim, perverse, determination that's driving me forward. Maybe that's my idea of fun. : )
ReplyDeleteAnd I understand the almost "evangelical enthusiasm" of people here (and CALL/WALL/ITC more generally). Though to outsiders this can sometimes come off as "having drunk the Koolaid." People in my own field of Conversation Analysis (and we usually write it with capital letters) are often accused of the same thing.
I'm enjoying dipping my toes in the EVO waters and enjoyed the live introductory presentation on all there other sessions being offered. I hadn't realized how broad a spectrum there was. When I was working at Sultan Qaboos University in Oman with Vance (almost 25 years ago!) there was a number of us language instructors interested in CALL and the university was chock-full of state-of-the-art computer labs. (And there were many other teachers with no interest whatsoever.) Vance was the driving force on the PC side and another colleague Tom Cobb was managing the Mac side of things. Initially both Vance and Tom were doing a lot with concordancing. It seems that Vance has moved away from that while Tom pursued that into a Ph.D. and a professorship at the University of Quebec at Montreal and has become one of the leaders in the field of lexical learning. (See Tom's website at https://www.lextutor.ca/), I was just getting into the idea of CALL when I left Oman to take a job in Mexico. And the tech disappeared almost completely. Anyway, that was still in a pre-web era of emal LISTSERVS. When I accepted my current position in Japan, I imagined that I would probably continue on with an exploration of CALL/WALL. I was shocked to discover when I arrived here in 1996 that no more than 2 students out of a class of 30 actually had a computer at home...and that that computer was not internet capable. I made a few feeble attempts to lead my students into chat rooms, which were a complete and utter failure since the students just sat there in front of the screen with their hands in their laps. Literally. Even today, not all of my students have a computer. For my adult learners, it may be that Tom's lexical activities (or rather the training of teachers to take advantage of it) is more on point, than gamification. But there's hope for me yet as a MC Missionary. Yesterday I was talking to a past student who who now teaches English in junior high. I showed her the Smolčec and Smolčec (2014) article with the intro by Vance and she seemed interested.
lextutor.ca - Compleat Lexical Tutor
Don, I enjoy meeting you, too! Unlike the real world where mommy says no to this and no to that, Minecraft is the only place where Mattie gets to build, create, try out crazy ideas, and do whatever he wants. Mattie hung out with Rose, Dak, and Maha a lot last year. He was eager to communicate even with his very little competence in the L2. Both Mattie and I learned a lot by joining this community. And I can see I am going to learn more about ethnomethodological conversational analysis this year! Glad that you've joined us. :)
ReplyDeleteI could sense Mattie's energy even in MC!
ReplyDeleteXD Sometimes he's a bit of a handful. ^___^''
ReplyDeleted-scholarship.pitt.edu - Virtual Discourse Structure: An Analysis of Conversation in World of Warcraft - D-Scholarship@Pitt
ReplyDelete